Exclusive interview for the Caucasian mass-media of independent journalist Vakha Khasanov with Chechen political scientist Saad Minkailov.
Vakha Khasanov: Russian media, including so-called democratic, coordinating each other, tried to keep quite about a declaration of Caucasus Emirate for a long time.
Isolated articles in Internet and in printed media should not be taken into account. But for last months this taboo has been broken. "Caucasian Emirate" (as it "by mistake" was named in the publications more often) not only mentioned, but also actively discussed. Sometimes, even without stating "so-called". What the reasons of such behavior, in your opinion?
Saad Minkailov: Disbelievers would always hide the truth, it is in their blood. Especially, infidels are trying to hide and deform a truth about the reason of the war with Islam.
With the declaration of Emirate, Mujahideen have emphasized their aim clearly and unambiguously and have completely got rid of all doubtful, that gradually was imposed on to Muslims. And it has driven the enemies, as the saying is, into a condition of frustration.
All of their political preparations and designs have been wasted in an instant. They found themselves in unpleasant situation when, even mentioning of the fact of the declaration of Caucasus Emirate, even in negative colors, does harm to them ...., and at the same time to ignore the subject is silly.
Without any distinct solutions, Kremlin's clique, under its momentum, clinged to the past using the out-of-date propaganda phraseology, for instance "the so-called president of Ichkeria".
The keeping their mouths shut during the war would not be overlooked, especially when silence became senseless, after concrete and direct operations of Martyrs. So, the enemy has been compelled to remove its taboo on mentioning of Emirate.
V.Khasanov: It is necessary to note, that Emirate causes a headache not only for Kremlin leaders, but also for so-called democratic opposition and a various types of human rights activists.
S.Minkailov: Well, of course. I shall tell, moreover, that democrats and human rights activists have been worried more than Kremliners.
Their worries are understandable. They did not receive a such blow for many years of the war. Till now, disbelievers have artfully and skillfully got Muslims involved, including us, in political tricks which are contradicting our religion and bringing the military victories of Mujahideen to nought.
The main role in playing a trick with "foolish Muslim" was given and is giving to every possible "fighter for human rights" (usually under direct orders of secret services) coupled with a different kind of eurocommissions and international organizations.
In this field we have a considerable experience of our own delusions.
Besides that, today we evidently see examples to where Islamic movements who imitated disbelievers in politics, diplomacy and terminology have arrived. And what is the most disastrous, they adopted and practiced disbelievers' laws.
There comes a moment when Muslims do not see the boundaries any more and overstep the line between belief and disbelief.
V.Khasanov: I understand, whom you meant. We were shaken by actions of HAMAS. They have killed Muslims who demanded to establish a Shariah law of Allah. Though, there has been many signs that, sooner or later, something similar would be expected from them.
S.Minkailov: Hamas did not become Taghut (all that is against Islamic values - K.C. ) at once. They have played by rules of disbelievers, they were happy with their plans and themselves, they were starting senseless discussions, they have lost directions, being involved in opposition where the dummy-purposes were painted for them.
At last, to please the disbelievers, they have shed a blood of Muslims.
As Amir Sayfullah said once if in the beginning of a journey there is a crack in Aqidah (articles of faith) then in the end there would emerge a huge precipice between statements and actions.
V.Khasanov: Observing present situation in HAMAS's Gaza, automatically want to compare our situation in Ichkeria between two wars. In my opinion, in all Islamic world there are same deviations leading to identical consequences.
S.Minkailov: This is why, today, the Mujahideen command makes every effort to avoid similar fitnah (disturbance - K.C.). Mujahideen are trying to make everything to bring intentions, statements and actions of Muslims to strict conformity.
When Mujahideen gave up everything that contradicts Islamic ideology, it becomes easy and simple. Darkness has left, all become transparent. It become clear who oppose who.
Besides that, this clarity was demanded by a new generation who come out on Jihad. And one of the signs from Allah, is that this young generation who has grown in a depths of nowadays' secular temptations, by mercy of Allah, is following a Tawhid (monotheism), is calling for pure faith, and coming out on Jihad with a dream of martyrdom.
V.Khasanov: By the way, about the dummy-purposes. You are, probably, familiar with the selection of articles which I have brought for you? There, if you read, one giaour (non-Muslim) is giving us in article a recommendation how to build an Islamic state correctly, as a model showing the example of Iran.
He writes there that besides religious books, Khomeini, supposedly, read also Platon's "State", and unlike Khomeini, the Mujahideen are not, evidently, familiar with the similar works and therefore cannot give to people "the integral ideological concept of the state".
S.Minkailov: Yeah, of course, we shall immediately run to a public library to fill in a gap in our education by reading ancient Greeks and Romans! At the same time, we shall acquaint ourselves with modern windbags like Habermases and Gluksmans.
I do not understand at all, whom these cues are prepared for. If for Mujahideen, they live in absolutely different intellectual and spiritual dimension.
EuroChechens do need that, they potter in their sandbox, and they have kind of everything: a "state", and a "government bodies", and a "political declarations".
Kafyrov (originated from Kadyrov, Russian puppet in Chechnya), even imagining that he can read, most likely never heard of Platon. Nevertheless, he has, with support of his bosses, has built, if not a state, but definitely a large concentration camp zone.
V.Khasanov: Yes, indeed. You have given me a hint. A concentration camp zone! Besides, Kafyrov's Chechnya is the worst model of GULAG controlled by camp bitches and pond lives.
All that time I could not understand whom do these degenerates resemble to. You know, that the most fallen Chechens has never attempted upon women and did not humiliate old men, especially publicly. That kind of things never happened in the past. But these animals do not have any limits. By the behaviour and the manners they remind me a Russian prison rabble.
Kafyrov's television stations present this concentration camp as a norm of life. It is impossible to watch these broadcasts without disgust, where a medley of men who have completely lost their dignity, are allowing to be humiliated by dirty effete who is in every second word swearing in love to Putin.
I did not hear, that our nation had ever been in such humiliated position. Did such things happen in the past?
S.Minkailov: Yes, it rather did! It is surprising for us, simply, because our generation clashed with it for the first time. Similar and even much worse terror and humiliation was experienced by almost every generation of Muslims.
For example, in 1930s, CPD (Central Political Department) called Mujahideen bandits and in softer words guerrillas.
Russian disbelievers and their Chechen harlots (apostates) burnt houses of relatives of Mujahedeen and of all people suspected in sympathy to them.
Publicly shot adults, threw small babies to the snow in presence of crowd of people and waited if anybody would sustain this mockery on humanity or approach to take the child. The minimum punishment for which would be tortures and concentration camps in Siberia.
Still, there were always such a Muslim who, despising Bolshevik's sadists, would approach and lift the child from a ground.
Mentioning all this, it is necessary to remember, that like it was then and it is nowadays and all the time, Allah is inflicting on us, Muslims, a humiliation as result of our deviation from HIS path.
V.Khasanov: Let's us come back to the subject on reaction of democratic media. It is noticeable, that the publications with its all visible diversity of verbal environment, are suggesting the same idea. Like, that's all, end of everything, we arrived at a deadlock, there are no responsible "militants", there is nobody to talk, and nobody of them is looking for any dialogues, there are senseless explosions and martyrs' operations which are not pursuing to achieve any significant military or political results, it's the war without sense and without aim.
The aim of martyrs is - to spread a horror in the hearts of an enemy, show it the invincibility of their own belief and strength of mind. For new generation it is indifferent, how long would the war last, they are ready to fight it, even for thousand years. And so on. The hopeless idea of such kind of struggle is gradually being suggested.
S.Minkailov: Generally, you are correctly telling about the atmosphere which prevails in these media. They are trying to suggest hopelessness, talking about senselessness, irrationality of position of Mujahedeen. However, they can not analyze the object impartially.
In the selection that you gave me, there even was an "appeal to the Chechen Resistance". In this appeal the author, I think he was Danish, was so distressed, that he hardly hides his scare. Like somebody has stolen a Jack-pot from him.
It appears, Muslims did not have a right to create "North-Caucasian Emirate". Well, the arguments for that accordingly as follows: people, their will, elections, sacred constitution and other "holiness" from democratic bible.
The author is distressed with of "treachery of Zakayev" and their ilk, which had led to the final discredit of CRI (Chechen Republic of Ichkeria - K.C.). He is also looking for any way to revive former games in "ethnic sovereignty", where the main mocking catchphrases are: "foreign countries will help", "the world community will not allow".
V.Khasanov: Is that, like attempts to keep carrot in front of donkey in the form of national democratic slogans?
S.Minkailov: Yes, in other words something like that.
As to senselessness of attacks of martyrs, democratic analysts are being cunning here. Both the Kremlin leaders and local puppets, as well as corrupt journalists, all together are in fear and scare, all of them.
So-called "democratic media" hates today's Kremlin rule, its policy and FSB's curators. But Muslims, and especially Mujahedeen are being hated much more strongly by them.
They do not have enough intelligence or tact not to show the satisfaction for bloody evil deeds of Kremlin puppets. What one headline "No Mercy!" is only worth. It appears, it was barked by Yevkurov (Russian puppet in Ingushetia - K.C.), sitting on a board of the vessel in Moscow in hospital's extreme care unit.
One can only imagine, how "frightened' should be Mujahedeen, who are preparing themselves to martyrdom operations.
The confusion has forced Medvedev to bring his puppets to a recent meeting in Sochi. On such talking-shops it is suggested "to gaze upon roots", then the set of reasons, which are permitted to be aired, of "continuation of acts of terrorism" is listed: "a poverty", "an unemployment", "a subsidized region", "a corrupted local authorities" and so forth.
Therefore, everybody should see clearly, that, namely, because of the above reasons young men have nothing left but to blow themselves up.
And of course, after each successful act of sabotage or operation of Mujahedeen as the deification of idiocy, there sounds of flourish: "criminal case is instituted" are heard. And this poor propaganda noodles have not been changed for last 15 years.
V.Khasanov: Yeah, the meeting in Sochi reminded a bit of an open day in "ward ¹ 6" (ward ¹ 6. is slang meaning psychiatric institution - K.C.). It is indeed, how bad the position of Kremlin leaders should be if they put so much hope on shell-shocked Yevkurov.
S.Minkailov: I do not believe, that doctors had not warned politicians of his condition, even, at least, for declining all responsibility. The shock wave was a serious and, obviously, did not miss the skull. The symptoms are visible - face is tensed, he is lost, he talks past, his judgment is not burdened with logic, and his joyful assurance, that he is "not a smeghead" does not add any optimism in the medical prognosis.
Apparently, the Kremliners do not care about his medical condition, the main thing is to show a picture - "he came back", and the ruling can be done by occupational administration. All these sensations around "personnel changes" is, most likely, also connected with it.
V.Khasanov: What can you say about a rumors that attacks of Mujahedeen, supposedly, are devoided of any functionality and that leaders of Muslims of Caucasus do not have strategic plans of warfare?
S.Minkailov: Let them please themselves with such illusions. Today, they are intensively inventing the technogenic reasons after the act of sabotage on Sayano-Shushensk Hydro Power Plant. They would see more than once a "lightning" hitting oil storages and gas pipelines, and there will be more fires at secret military factories and chemical enterprises.
Even Dzhokhar Dudayev has indicated a vulnerability of Russian industrial-economic infrastructure. Shamil Abu-Idris (Shamil Basayev - K.C.) had developed concrete plans for acts of sabotage and partially they had been realized by him.
Now, obviously, the command of Mujahedeen decided, that time has come to carry out, purposefully and well thought, acts of sabotage on vital establishments of Russia.
V.Khasanov: How trustworthy is information about sabotage groups of Mujahedeen are being in various Russian regions?
S.Minkailov: Well, we can judge about the subject by numbers of "technogenic failures" and hits of "lightning", confirmed by video records. And so, it is known, that independent groups are being created, with 3-4 people in them which are not distinguished with Islamic attributes and do not go to mosques.
Sometimes these groups appear independently, including among ethnic Russian, and they give an oath of allegiance to Emir Dokka.
V.Khasanov: Why do not they visit mosques?
S.Minkailov: It was repeatedly said in the past. Today, visiting a mosque in Russia, and furthermore on Caucasus, is the same as to glue to your back a poster saying: "Put me on surveillance!". They are part of Mujahedeen intelligence and they are saboteurs behind the enemy lines. Such position dictates the appropriate behavior.
V.Khasanov: Many people compare first and second war (in Chechnya -K.C.) and it is natural that everyone interprets distinctions and peculiarities in their own way. Democrats even say there is possibility that in the nearest future "the third Chechen war" would start. What distinctions exist here in your view?
S.Minkailov: Firstly, if it is being predicted and somebody is being afraid of "the third Chechen war", I wonder when "the second Chechen war" has ended?
May be when Putin has declared about end of war in 2000 or when Medvedev has cancelled the CTO (Counter-Terrorism Operation - K.C.) in May 2009?
Or may be, in June 2004 when Mujahedeen seized Nazran and, as a result, there has about 300 employees of so-called "enforcement departments" been killed and wounded.
Or may be, after Mujahedeen operation in Nalchik in October 2005?
It's all a cheap ruses. Caucasus is supposedly "appeased", and though, there are "some acts of terrorism, because of unemployment", but do not be alarmed, in all occasions "criminal cases are instituted".
As to a difference of this war, it had a different nature from the very beginning. When Mujahedeen led by Shamil and Khattab (may Allah forgive them) have entered Botlikh and attacked Russian occupational military units in Dagestan, everyone understood that this was a different war.
And it was best understood by Russian generals when they heard how Mujahedeen were communicating on the radio between each other in almost all languages of Caucasus.
When war begin to be dragged out, all those who shouted nationalist slogans, shouted about freedom, about the sovereignty, have run away far from the fields of battle or groveled before Kafyrov.
There is no even a bit of romanticism in this war, only a severe reality and a naked truth when it is clearly revealed - who is who.
V.Khasanov: As far as I know, some apostates came not only from jahil (of ignoramus - K.C.) groups, but from Jamaats (Mujahedeen groups - K.C.), according to some data, 40 % of them have sided with Kafyrov?
S.Minkailov: Yes it so and, if to be more precise, all known groups including Jamaats, have broken up into three parts: on Mujahedeen, on those who has run across to disbelievers and on those who has shown weakness and has departed off.
During this Jihad, Mujahedeen, by Allah's will, are being exposed to much heavier tests. There are situations when they have to choose between well-being, sometimes between the life of relatives and Jihad. Not everyone is ready for these sacrifices, not everyone can bear a such burdens. And as it is said in the hadith: "Indeed, all actions are assessed on a completion".
And another main distinction of this war, or more precisely, distinction of the attitude to this war from a new generation of Mujahedeen.
They consider this war as Allah's blessing to them. And they are not being tired of this war because this war is a Jihad for them. And one can not get tired from Jihad, as well as one can not get tired from doing a Prayer.
They clearly understand that the war and only war can remedy the situation and lead out our Ummah from present condition of humiliation.
V.Khasanov: What interesting is, when you speak about necessity of war, everybody is ready to henpeck you, especially, so-called Ulama (Muslim scholars - K.C.). When you talk about Jihad, technically, about that same war, here even disbelievers do not enter into straightforward dispute.
S.Minkailov: Yeah, your remark is accurate. Therefore, I deliberately talk about the war. To remind to myself and to others, that today this war is individual duty for Muslims. To make sure that we do not try to hide under the fiction of "big and small Jihad" when it is clearly stated in the Quran "And a battle is ordered to you ...".
When you interpret a war correctly, as the necessary phenomenon, as means of rescue, then there appears a panic in a camp of enemies of Allah.
We can see, that enemies including from a camp of so-called democratic analysts are downright alarmed by the fact that this war is becoming qualitatively different. They understood, that they will not hear anymore usual political phraseology from Mujahedeen, or invitation to "a peace dialogue", or an appeal to "international law" or other set of requests from "good militants".
V.Khasanov: Looking upon Mujahedeen and tests which have fallen on to their fate, the behavior of some so-called intellectuals appears to be, especially, filthy. In the beginning of 1990s, though, they would have given a raise to certain doubts, but they still looked like a quite respectable.
There was an opus of two figures: D. Khalidov and E. Khachukayev on FSB backed website "Northern Caucasus" in the selection that I have given to you. Such joint bootlickering project about "what a nice guy is Ramzan Kafyrov". The reading of it, certainly, is impossible without aversion. Authors have discovered that Kafyrov has many qualities, including "native wit", and all this without any humorous implications.
S.Minkailov: Well, the authors toiled, searched, though to find Kafyrov's intellect is not an easy task. But they not pioneers, long before them this "discovery" was made by the Russian Academy of Sciences.
Such people like these two "Kh" always are trying to guess a political wave and keep on it. Now they, obviously, consider, that all is settling down through Kremlin's version, and it is necessary not to miss a chance to fill any lucrative niche.
To predict a behavior of people is, though, thankless occupation, a behavior of similar type of figures, in average, is statistically could be predicted. It would be strange, if they behaved in any other way. The only thing that astonishes us is the degree of their fall.
It was truly difficult to predict another, namely, that today is observed among Chechens which traditionally served a colonial regime, and in 1990s, acted as the fifth pillar for invaders.
Today they in a big shock.. Their children are coming out to Jihad! And it is not a single instance, but almost a conformity to natural laws. And I do not remember an instance that, someone from these young men has backed off or shown weakness. Many became Martyrs (inshaAllah).
Some of them had everything, luxury apartments in big cities, nice cars and money, opportunity to study in prestigious universities.
And one another sign of this war, which is rather distressing. Many of those who once called for Jihad, shone with eloquence in their appeal, have left Jihad. You will not see either them or their sons on battle fields. And it is just to say, still a soft version of falling of Iman (Faith - K.C.).
There are even worse examples. For instance, when the father was known Mujahid at the beginning of war and become a Martyr (inshaAllah), his two sons become apostates and are serving in Kafyrov's police force. And they are not simply serving, but are trying to gain a favor from.
These facts shows that today there is absolutely different war going on. It is war between belief and disbelief, between Islam and Kufr (Disbelief - K.C.).
Allah directs hearts of His slaves and divides them at His own discretion. And if some people do not understand that, than nobody can help them.
V.Khasanov: And the last topic that I wished to discuss. In some Russian and Western media the fact of full failure of the Kremlin's policy on Caucasus has been established. Also, they believe that Caucasian people, taken advantage of the situation, would demand sovereignty for themselves, as did South Ossetia and Abkhazia. At what level similar prospect is considered by a command of Mujahedeen?
S.Minkailov: As far as I know, at no level at all. As sovereignty of Abkhazia and South Ossetia has less than Penza region (region in the middle of Russia - K.C.). It is absolutely stupid to talk about a sovereignty of small ethnic enclaves in the modern world.
It is doubly more stupid to talk about sovereignty of the territory which is trembled down by Russian invaders. It's firstly.
Secondly, discussions about "building of national state" is one of many distracting subjects where there would be actively offered tempting political projects to us. And it would be offered not through disbelievers who are quoting Platon and Max Webber, but through so-called Ulama which would be quoting Quran and Sunnah.
The main aim of our enemies is to lure away us in to "a political casino", so we completely loose the "fruits" of Jihad.
V.Khasanov: If to be more specific, what examples?
S.Minkailov: Examples are an ocean. For instance, Bosnia, the country for which Mujahedeen from all over Islamic world shed their blood for. Jihad has ended, Mujahedeen have left with feeling of discharged duty and Bosnia was integrated into a "world community". And now sending its troops against Mujahedeen of Afghanistan as part of so-called "coalition".
V.Khasanov: Is there any policy which would allow to not step on a raker, again, on this common Muslim raker?
S.Minkailov: Yes, there is. But, as far as I know, the command of Mujahedeen is not going to publish it. The military-political plans are being developed not for general discussion.
But one thing could be said about these plans is that they certainly do not propose a dully loss of any achievements of Jihad.
Also, I would like to say that, thank to Allah, Mujahedeen of Caucasus today are not being lonely in seeking the best path. There are opportunities to get advise and discuss their actions with Ulama, who has confirmed their knowledge and God-fearing by their participation in Jihad.
Finally, to emphasize distinction and nature of our attitude to a subject of state, I would like to quote part of the letter of Amir Sayfullah to one of Mujahedeen.
- "Coming back to a subject of state, it is necessary to note, the great value is in the reason of why you want to revive Caliphate (state which is governed by Shariah law - K.C.). Basically, many people want it because they hope to find safety and comfort for themselves. It is natural, but first of all each of us should seek to acquire Tamkeen (authority, opportunity to establish Shariah law on certain territory - K.C.) by Muslims as it is an realization of Tawhid and elimination of Shirk ("association" of God's qualities with someone or something else - K.C.) detestated to Allah.
And even if a ruler will be villain, it is not a such big problem, as the main thing is that he was not a Mushrik (disbeliever or the one who worships Allah and others than Him - K.C.) and he would not legalize Shirk. Therefore, anyone who loves Allah and dislike Shirk and Mushrikin would sacrifice anything, for the sake of victory of Tawhid.
Even if I shall precisely know, that a cruel Muslim will be ruling after the victory, who would feel personal hatred towards me and dream of killing me, I shall do the same, everything for the sake of this victory.
Even if I would be told that there is an opportunity to be ruled by a disbeliever who gives me a full freedom of speech and support, I shall disagree.
But Ihvans would agree, because state for them is necessity for a sake of Dunya (our secular world - K.C.). Therefore, today, when they have been convinced that disbelievers would not give them a chance to build state, they have decided to achieve Dunya and authority by other way around, they have become disbelievers, they have began an open war with Muslims. Like in Afghanistan (Sayaf and Rabbani), and in Somalia (Ahmed Sharif), and now in Gaza".
V.Khasanov: Thank you very much (Jazakallahu Khayra) for the interview.
The interview was led by the independent journalist of Vakha Khasanaov.
Department of letters,
Kavkaz Center
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